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obama, if he got his taxes on the rich, is still $8 trillion short over the next decade. that's where the energy taxes he's going to present and the value added tax that ultimately turns us into a european welfare state only of that can pay for obama's sized government. >> wow. grover, unfortunately we have to leave it there. our discussion of unicorns will continue, i'm sure, at least up until december 31st. thank you for joining us today as always. >> you got it. >> after the break, offer ver ses counteroffer. we will break both down with ezra klein when he joins us next on "now." i gave birth to my daughter on may 18th, five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ woman ] learn from my story. but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and
obama, if he got his taxes on the rich, is still $8 trillion short over the next decade. that's where the energy taxes he's going to present and the value added tax that ultimately turns us into a european welfare state only of that can pay for obama's sized government. >> wow. grover, unfortunately we have to leave it there. our discussion of unicorns will continue, i'm sure, at least up until december 31st. thank you for joining us today as always. >> you got it. >> after...
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now, there are two numbers that the obama side, the democrats want to change. there are two top rates. the 33 and the 35. under the obama plan, the 33 would go to 36, the 35 would go to 39.6. you know, if you're trying to negotiate a compromise, you can start to play with each one of those numbers and try to find something. the huge problem for the republicans on doing that is they're opposed to any kind of tax increase on principle. so it's very hard for them to go into the negotiations that way and say, well, we could live with 37. well, if you do that, you have violated everything you've said about what you stand for prior to that. min i mean, the easier way for boehner to handle this is to allow if not secretly encourage a vote to occur in the house on the senate bill. if boehner were to allow a couple of dozen of his people it to go sign the discharge petition so that that comes to a vote and it comes to a vote without boehner having his fingerprints on it, allowing some republicans to go over there and just vote for that, that's the cleanest way to get it
now, there are two numbers that the obama side, the democrats want to change. there are two top rates. the 33 and the 35. under the obama plan, the 33 would go to 36, the 35 would go to 39.6. you know, if you're trying to negotiate a compromise, you can start to play with each one of those numbers and try to find something. the huge problem for the republicans on doing that is they're opposed to any kind of tax increase on principle. so it's very hard for them to go into the negotiations that...
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he knows that taxes go up on the top 2%. obama won that in the campaign. the problem that the speaker faces is his members won on a campaign platform they were going to lower taxes for high-income folks. it's a tough sell to get his members to do that, which they don't want to do. on the other hand his members know that the end game will be taxes go up on the it top 2%. either they'll have the maneuver of two votes so everybody has a face-saving way forward on the revenues, or we'll wait until january and put a tax bill on the floor where they maintain their commitment to groefrer norquist and vote at that point for lower taxes. >> you are one of the democrats who has indicated in the past you'd be willing to go off the so-called cliff if that's awhat it takes to get a good deal. are you at all concerned the message that that sends to the markets, the message that sends potentially to consumers as well during this busy holiday shopping season? >> i am. you know, it's another indication of congressional dysfunction. so it's not anything that's particularly
he knows that taxes go up on the top 2%. obama won that in the campaign. the problem that the speaker faces is his members won on a campaign platform they were going to lower taxes for high-income folks. it's a tough sell to get his members to do that, which they don't want to do. on the other hand his members know that the end game will be taxes go up on the it top 2%. either they'll have the maneuver of two votes so everybody has a face-saving way forward on the revenues, or we'll wait until...
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i didn't raise your taxes. oh, by the way, my base, you wealthy folks over here, look what obama did to you. he raised your taxes. that's only going to infuriate the wealthy even more. the fact here is is that he has given them something they can campaign on plus they can turn around and say, these are his cuts to medicare, not ours. i don't now why they don't take this deal for the good of the country and come back and fight another day. >> to say democrats are not serious about entitlements, $400 billion of cuts to medicare is a cut to entitlements. that's going to mean hardship for seniors. that's a real cut. now, you can pretend like the hospitals are going to swallow all of that cost cut. they're not. they're going to pass that on. that means less health care. those are real dollars. and so you can say that democrats are not serious, but $400 billion to most people, that's real money. >> well, the obama team is saying they can find these costs in inefficiencies and providers. that's where they're going to
i didn't raise your taxes. oh, by the way, my base, you wealthy folks over here, look what obama did to you. he raised your taxes. that's only going to infuriate the wealthy even more. the fact here is is that he has given them something they can campaign on plus they can turn around and say, these are his cuts to medicare, not ours. i don't now why they don't take this deal for the good of the country and come back and fight another day. >> to say democrats are not serious about...
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in the "wall street journal" they write obama's flexible on highest tax rates. white house's flexibility, described by bowls, confirmed by the administration officials, could envision tax rates -- tax rate increase from the current level but was less than clinton era levels. if the republicans can say, we cut taxes from where they were under clinton it gives them cover though rates may go up. a weird, if there is an act of kabuki theater that would be it, right. >> i see a parallel between the two news story the palestinian vote and the congressional stuff because boehner's -- >> be careful here, my friend, please. >> let me do my caveats first. i still have a job when i walk out of the studio. i sort of see a boehner in the role of a boss here. you know he has got, you know, he's got still a very hard core group of people on right who are not still -- still not terribly afraid and are not taking lessons out of election so he really does have a fundamental concern about how he's going to put together a coalition to do this. and i really do think, for all joking
in the "wall street journal" they write obama's flexible on highest tax rates. white house's flexibility, described by bowls, confirmed by the administration officials, could envision tax rates -- tax rate increase from the current level but was less than clinton era levels. if the republicans can say, we cut taxes from where they were under clinton it gives them cover though rates may go up. a weird, if there is an act of kabuki theater that would be it, right. >> i see a...
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it's noted that the democrats have celebrated the proposal put out by president obama. meanwhile, you have a number of republicans slamming speaker boehner. how would you describe his position right now? >> well, he really didn't win for losing. he's trying to say to president obama if i wanted topaz your proposal i can't do it. he's really truly between a deal and promise and getting the fight over with and a conference that won't allow it. i think what senator demint is saying and house republicans are saying to john boehner is, let's go over the cliff. that we can live with the sequester and we absolutely will not raise tax rates no matter what. what that does is eliminate all of the tax cuts and then there's a new fight in january to push obviously by the democrats to restore tax cuts for 98% of americans. and then that will be muddied by the need for a debt ceiling increase and the fight goes in to february. it's government at the brink all the time. we don't know how the markets and the credit rating agencies will react. probably be bad ybut i think that's what yo
it's noted that the democrats have celebrated the proposal put out by president obama. meanwhile, you have a number of republicans slamming speaker boehner. how would you describe his position right now? >> well, he really didn't win for losing. he's trying to say to president obama if i wanted topaz your proposal i can't do it. he's really truly between a deal and promise and getting the fight over with and a conference that won't allow it. i think what senator demint is saying and house...
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. >> are you saying then, for pr purposes, that they should give in to obama on the tax rate? >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am. >> you're saying to capitulate to obama who's -- we don't have a revenue problem, ann. >> we lost the election, sean. >> what was that? i mean joy. >> stop making sense, ann. >> we should have led with that. it is like ann coulter is admitting the republicans lost and some deal should be in order. >> when ann coulter is the sanest voice in your party it might be time to going back to being the wigs. it's a it tough time for republicans. she's right. the republicans at this point are negotiating the terms of their surrender on the tax issue. from a pr standpoint and a real standpoint they can't look like all they care about is defending those top 2% rates. >> absolutely. >> if i can go back to what joan said, i think the problem is that if you look at ann coulter even, feeds into the same thing, people like jim demint may be leaving the senate but it's like the movie "aliens" he's seated the host with the alien baby. >> oh, god. >> all these pe
. >> are you saying then, for pr purposes, that they should give in to obama on the tax rate? >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am. >> you're saying to capitulate to obama who's -- we don't have a revenue problem, ann. >> we lost the election, sean. >> what was that? i mean joy. >> stop making sense, ann. >> we should have led with that. it is like ann coulter is admitting the republicans lost and some deal should be in order. >> when ann...
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taxes on those making $250,000 or more. if you look at questions coming in, there's still concerns about those ideas, so the president answering those this afternoon. this is really like a twitter town hall. he used a similar tactic back in 2011 to talk about jobs and the economy. also remember during the payroll tax cut fight, senior administration officials tell me they have gotten more responses during this my2k hash tag initiative than in the past. that stands for $2,000, which is how much taxes would increase. john boehner says this is at a standoff. all sides need to come back to the table at some point to get progress anytime soon. tamron. >> let me bring in congressman chris van hollen. thank you for your time, sir. very busy and saw you on the monday morning program as well. how would you categorize talks right now? is this a true stalemate? >> well, it's only a stalemate because speaker boehner, the republican leader, has not put his proposal on the table. as you know, the president has put his cards on the table.
taxes on those making $250,000 or more. if you look at questions coming in, there's still concerns about those ideas, so the president answering those this afternoon. this is really like a twitter town hall. he used a similar tactic back in 2011 to talk about jobs and the economy. also remember during the payroll tax cut fight, senior administration officials tell me they have gotten more responses during this my2k hash tag initiative than in the past. that stands for $2,000, which is how much...
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president obama and john boehner. even all sides of the party are excluded. >>> with 25 days before taxes go up for nearly every single american, what effect will the jobs report have on the fiscal standoff? we'll get live remarks from john boehner who is going to try to use the jobs report to the republican's advantage. representative, let's start with the november jobs report numbers. they look very good, good news overall for the koirnlt tree. but speaker boehner said this, the democrats plan to slow walk our economy to the edge of the fiscal cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that
president obama and john boehner. even all sides of the party are excluded. >>> with 25 days before taxes go up for nearly every single american, what effect will the jobs report have on the fiscal standoff? we'll get live remarks from john boehner who is going to try to use the jobs report to the republican's advantage. representative, let's start with the november jobs report numbers. they look very good, good news overall for the koirnlt tree. but speaker boehner said this, the...
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they have a plan on tax reduction which most economists think would do far more harm than the obama plan would. secondly, they fail to specify what kind of cuts they want. remember, this is the party that's campaigned for two election cycles now on cutting government spinding, but when you ask them to identify exactly what you want to cut, you get mishmash from them. you get $100 billion in medicare savings by increasing the retirement age from 65 to 67. you get some unspecified savings from reducing social security. the only specifics if you add them up are about $300 billion or $400 billion in specific cuts, the rest are inspecific. this is the party whose fundamental premise is to cut government spending. you ask them to identify how they want to do it, and they start speaking in gibberish. it shows you this is a phony, phony movement on the part of conservatives to cut government spending. >> absolutely. ari, the president took a question on twitter this afternoon. quote, what is your opposition to taking away deductions for the 2% rather than upping the rate? seems like a reasonable
they have a plan on tax reduction which most economists think would do far more harm than the obama plan would. secondly, they fail to specify what kind of cuts they want. remember, this is the party that's campaigned for two election cycles now on cutting government spinding, but when you ask them to identify exactly what you want to cut, you get mishmash from them. you get $100 billion in medicare savings by increasing the retirement age from 65 to 67. you get some unspecified savings from...
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but not without higher taxes for the wealthy. the president sat down with bloomberg for his first tv interview since the election and the fiscal cliff face off. he reiterated that lying in the sand is higher taxes for the wealthy. he gave republicans some room to maneuver. >> the issue right now that's relevant is the acknowledgment that if we're going to raise revenues that are sufficient to balance with the very tough cuts that we've already made and the further reforms and entitlemented ientitlements i'm prepared to make, we have to see the rates on the top 2% go up. we're not getting a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn or partisan, it's a matter of math. >> and the gop plan, which was unveiled yesterday, includes $800 bill onin new taxes made through closing loopholes and deductions and not raising rates. compare that to the president's plan and that's about half of what the white house asked for. republicans propose 600 billion in entitlement saving including raising the medicare req
but not without higher taxes for the wealthy. the president sat down with bloomberg for his first tv interview since the election and the fiscal cliff face off. he reiterated that lying in the sand is higher taxes for the wealthy. he gave republicans some room to maneuver. >> the issue right now that's relevant is the acknowledgment that if we're going to raise revenues that are sufficient to balance with the very tough cuts that we've already made and the further reforms and...
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tax cuts, and sort of dare the republican party not to vote for, you know, a new round of obama tax cuts. politically the president holds those but it's more important than that. the american people, after looking at options presented to them reclearly with a return of president obama to the white house, or initiating mitt romney presidency, chose a return of president obama to the white house and therefore gave him a very clear mandate to hold the line on the question of entitlements there when it comes to talking about entitlements, or earned benefits as progressives like to refer to it, what is the way that the president and those on the left can look and also appear to the right to be willing to compromise? what can they put on the table, if anything? >> well, i just don't think that any of us think that it is a reasonable idea to over the course of the next week and a half, over the course of the holiday season, for the president and this congress, which is a lame duck congress, to engage in major entitlement reforms of programs that have helped to lift millions of americans ou
tax cuts, and sort of dare the republican party not to vote for, you know, a new round of obama tax cuts. politically the president holds those but it's more important than that. the american people, after looking at options presented to them reclearly with a return of president obama to the white house, or initiating mitt romney presidency, chose a return of president obama to the white house and therefore gave him a very clear mandate to hold the line on the question of entitlements there...
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all ten of the highest tax states wept for president obama in 2012 and eight of the lowest tax states were for romney. that would be a particularly tough tax for blue states. them. charitable contributions. this is the most sensitive to tax incentives. you have to live somewhere, you need a home and it is hard it move it a new state because taxes went up. you don't need to give to charity. people give to charity because they want to and also, let's be real, because the government encourages through the tax code. it is reported in bloomberg in 2009 households with incomes of more than $200,000 claimed almost $60 billion in charitable deductions or 20% of total charitable giving in the u.s. that year. he goes on to site one study that found charitable donations are cut almost dollar for dollar to the increase in the donor's tax bill. so that could be a $60 billion cut to charity coffers. other studies said it could be half that though still likely in many billions of dollars of cuts to charities. that is the reality behind base broadening rate lowering tax reform. not magic. more of a m
all ten of the highest tax states wept for president obama in 2012 and eight of the lowest tax states were for romney. that would be a particularly tough tax for blue states. them. charitable contributions. this is the most sensitive to tax incentives. you have to live somewhere, you need a home and it is hard it move it a new state because taxes went up. you don't need to give to charity. people give to charity because they want to and also, let's be real, because the government encourages...
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president obama has thrown down the gauntlet on taxes and while the gop is stomping its feet at making the wealthy to pay a bit more, he's making his pitch to the people. at a toy factory today, he warned them to play nice. >> joe biden was in costco. he wanted to buy some of this stuff. but i told him he had too much work to dochl i wasn. i told him he wasn't going to build roller coasters all day long. of course, santa delivers everywhere. i've been keeping my own naughty and nice list for washington. so you should keep your eye on who gets come kinects this year. there are going to be some members of congress who get them and some who don't. >> what sort of plan do you give the republican who won't agree with anything? this one, of course. the president is asking for a $1.6 trillion tax increase, $50 billion in economic stimulus, and the power to raise the debt limit without congressional approval. meanwhile, he will work the fine savings in entitlements. not to the man sitting on the naughty list. senator mcconnell said that he burst into laughter at the proposal. you know what is
president obama has thrown down the gauntlet on taxes and while the gop is stomping its feet at making the wealthy to pay a bit more, he's making his pitch to the people. at a toy factory today, he warned them to play nice. >> joe biden was in costco. he wanted to buy some of this stuff. but i told him he had too much work to dochl i wasn. i told him he wasn't going to build roller coasters all day long. of course, santa delivers everywhere. i've been keeping my own naughty and nice list...
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>> how will he pass the massive obama tax cut without the house? >> i'm assuming they'd want to have a big tax cut, right? >> no. >> they would sit on their hands post-january 1st and say nothing? >> do you think republicans are so stupid in the house they don't see that move coming and say, you know what? you go ahead and you try to pass your tax cut through harry reid's senate, and we'll pass our tax cut through the house. and good luck. >> so they would just rather have everyone's tax -- i'm shock that that would be the end result. >> harry reid would rather have it his way or nobody's way? >> no, i'm saying you can negotiate in these flex three weeks about this package of tax cuts. >> i don't mean this to be directed towards you -- >> but here it comes. >> -- no, i'm just saying generally, there is such an arrogance in the media since the president won. they think that these house republicans are -- >> have nothing to say. >> -- have absolutely nothing to say. >> i do agree with that. or nothing of value. >> they act as if they were elected by
>> how will he pass the massive obama tax cut without the house? >> i'm assuming they'd want to have a big tax cut, right? >> no. >> they would sit on their hands post-january 1st and say nothing? >> do you think republicans are so stupid in the house they don't see that move coming and say, you know what? you go ahead and you try to pass your tax cut through harry reid's senate, and we'll pass our tax cut through the house. and good luck. >> so they would...
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obama championed tax fairness and won. republicans championed protecting that 2%, ignoring the 47% he talked about, and they lost. today boehner said he's willing to raise revenues by the same amount he agreed to back in august of 2011, the last time they had this fight. again, he's willing to act like the election never happened. no wonder. again, he lost. joining me is joy reid of the grio and howard fineman of the "huffington post." joy, you're chuckling because it is weirdly true. it's almost like groundhog day, this guy, boehner, ice not a bad guy, but he's operating on a bad thought here. the election didn't happen. >> it's incredible. it's amazing watching john boehner reach for anything, simpson/bowles which, by the way, assumed that the tax cuts for the top 2% would be gone, but he forgets about that and bain ser trying to offer the same exact policies that mitt romney ran and lost on, that the republicans tried to negotiate with the white house. it is incredible. and the only way i can explain this, the only way
obama championed tax fairness and won. republicans championed protecting that 2%, ignoring the 47% he talked about, and they lost. today boehner said he's willing to raise revenues by the same amount he agreed to back in august of 2011, the last time they had this fight. again, he's willing to act like the election never happened. no wonder. again, he lost. joining me is joy reid of the grio and howard fineman of the "huffington post." joy, you're chuckling because it is weirdly true....
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there's $1 trillion of obama care taxes hitting in the next several years, many of them major taxes. if you have a flexible savings account on january 1 -- this isn't the fiscal cliff. this is what obama has already baked into the cake. your flexible savings account will be trashed by taxes. millions of special needs families will find their taxes go up. if you're really sick, you can't deduct as much of your health care costs as you used to. these are all the ways that obama's raising taxes, $1 trillion, $1.1 trillion, over the next decade. five major taxes. his new taxes are not off the table. they hit directly into the middle class. medical devices. when you go to the hospital, medical devices like riding in a wheelchair will get more expensive because of this tax. i mean, these taxes are damaging. he wants to make them permanent. >> i think grover knows that the major source of additional taxes is part of the affordable care act is asking higher income individuals over $250,000 to pay higher capital gains and more on their medicare contribution. that was the bulk of the taxes. so
there's $1 trillion of obama care taxes hitting in the next several years, many of them major taxes. if you have a flexible savings account on january 1 -- this isn't the fiscal cliff. this is what obama has already baked into the cake. your flexible savings account will be trashed by taxes. millions of special needs families will find their taxes go up. if you're really sick, you can't deduct as much of your health care costs as you used to. these are all the ways that obama's raising taxes,...
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congressman tom cole of oklahoma signaled republicans should accept president obama's tax offer. earlier today the president made note of it. let's listen. >> i'm glad to see, if you've been reading the papers lately, that more and more republicans in congress seem to be agreeing with this idea that we should have a balanced approach. so, if both parties agree we should not raise taxes on middle class families, let's begin our work with where we agree. >> congressman, thank you for joining us tonight. give us your thinking about why it's important, i know politically it makes sense to many people, middle class, people making up to $250,000 a year, get the tax cut continued but people above are basically decoupled from that much larger group of people. >> well, chris, i don't think taxes ought to go up for anybody. i think it's bad economic policy. it will eventually cost us jobs and eventually slow the economy. that's going to cost us revenue as well. i don't agree with the president on that point. frankly, i think he needs to be a lot more specific about putting spending cuts an
congressman tom cole of oklahoma signaled republicans should accept president obama's tax offer. earlier today the president made note of it. let's listen. >> i'm glad to see, if you've been reading the papers lately, that more and more republicans in congress seem to be agreeing with this idea that we should have a balanced approach. so, if both parties agree we should not raise taxes on middle class families, let's begin our work with where we agree. >> congressman, thank you for...
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the obama plan has half from tax increases versus about 20% in the boehner plan. these are philosophical differences. boehner would cut much more. obama's view is we've cut so much from that already we have to be careful how much more we cut. >> when you talk about discretionary spending cuts, a big difference between defense cuts and domestic cuts. does it go after defense spending the way he has? >> he hasn't spelled it out yet. we don't know. r&d, a lot of investment programs we think we need to keep this economy growing. >> can i ask a question? what makes up the difference between the bowles-simpson proposals and the other ones? why is that so much higher? what are they leaving out? >> there were more tax increases. it was light on entitlements. >> okay. >> where did bowles-simpson get the revenue. >> they eliminated a whole slaw and lowering rates and also a tax on gasoline. >> they let the bush tax cuts expire, right? >> initially they did and then were going to do tax reform. >> would they increase the taxes on the rich? >> yeah. >> they would? >> yes. >>
the obama plan has half from tax increases versus about 20% in the boehner plan. these are philosophical differences. boehner would cut much more. obama's view is we've cut so much from that already we have to be careful how much more we cut. >> when you talk about discretionary spending cuts, a big difference between defense cuts and domestic cuts. does it go after defense spending the way he has? >> he hasn't spelled it out yet. we don't know. r&d, a lot of investment programs...
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the taxes will go up for the top 2%. obama's job number one, a tax cut for the 98%. the rest of the people. let's listen to him. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for just a handful of republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks to go up. all right? that doesn't make sense. the senate has already passed a bill to keep income taxes from going up on middle class families. that's already passed the senate. your members of congress, like allyson and chaka, other democrats in the house, they're ready to go, they're ready to vote on that same thing. if we can just get a few house republicans on board, we can pass the bill in the house, it will land on my desk, and i am ready, i have got a bunch of pens ready to sign this bill. >> 30 minutes after the president was finished, house speaker john boehner held a press conference, and he left unanswered the president's call for decoupling that 98% from the richest 2%, and he gave a pessimistic assessment of the si
the taxes will go up for the top 2%. obama's job number one, a tax cut for the 98%. the rest of the people. let's listen to him. >> it's not acceptable to me and i don't think it's acceptable to you for just a handful of republicans in congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they don't want tax rates on upper income folks to go up. all right? that doesn't make sense. the senate has already passed a bill to keep income taxes from going up on middle class families....
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and for the obama administration, the question is, is it in their interest to trade tax cuts for the wealthy? increase for the wealthy for raising the age for eligibility for medicare, for example. i'm not sure that that's a trade that they are eager to make immediately. >> let me show you the side by side comparison. the president wants $1.6 trillion in revenue and republicans want to cap the same deductions for the rich but republicans want to change the age to 67 and change the way they calculate social security payments. i wonder, though, when we look at these numbers, are we that far apart in. >> i think they are definitely rather far aare part at this moment in time. yeah, absolutely. >> so there are so many ways that any of this could affect the average tack payer, obviously if taxes go up. but what about funding to states and localities. i know that one of the things that they are concerned about is that when you make cuts, that essentially those cuts are going to come on their budgets. what could happen in a meeting like this between bipartisan governors and the president? >
and for the obama administration, the question is, is it in their interest to trade tax cuts for the wealthy? increase for the wealthy for raising the age for eligibility for medicare, for example. i'm not sure that that's a trade that they are eager to make immediately. >> let me show you the side by side comparison. the president wants $1.6 trillion in revenue and republicans want to cap the same deductions for the rich but republicans want to change the age to 67 and change the way...
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. >> which is why i'm glad that president obama had the courage to end the bush tax cuts two years ago -- oh, wait a second. i'll tell you what. you know what? >> i agree with you. >> extended them for two more years, but at least now he's got the nerve, the courage to do what democrats have been saying all along, and end the bush -- oh, wait a second. no. he's actually keeping 98% of them. huh. >> look, he's keeping it for 98% of the country. i happen to agree. you know, i'm a supporter of the simpson-bowles approach, but we are where we are right now. and i think to chuck's point, this may make it -- and to your point -- and they may get to a point where this is very uncomfortable for democrats. again, $2 trillion, both are asking for that, it with certainly get us through the year, avoid sequestration, avoid the pain that many in the business community are concerned about. if we start growing again, imagine how easy this conversation will be next year if the economy is growing at 3% to 4%. >> yes, and the spirit of jack kemp rises from the table of "morning joe." >> growth. it's alw
. >> which is why i'm glad that president obama had the courage to end the bush tax cuts two years ago -- oh, wait a second. i'll tell you what. you know what? >> i agree with you. >> extended them for two more years, but at least now he's got the nerve, the courage to do what democrats have been saying all along, and end the bush -- oh, wait a second. no. he's actually keeping 98% of them. huh. >> look, he's keeping it for 98% of the country. i happen to agree. you...
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blamed for it. >> so are you saying, then, for pr purposes that they should give into obama on the tax rate in. >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am. >> ka pit late to obama who is -- we don't have a revenue problem, ann. >> we lost the election, shawn. >> i can't believe i'm saying this, but ann coultter is right. they lost. the question may now be when, not if, the republicans will cave on taxes. joining me now is dana milbank, columnist for "the washington post." he's writing about the republicans waving tax hikes and cynthia tucker and visiting professor of journalism at the university of georgia. thanks to both of you for being here tonight. >> hi, reverend. >> good to be here, reverend. >> dana, are republicans really ready to cave? >> well, reverend, first of all, terrific particular to see you and ann coulter on the same page. they've caved already. they have said, we're going to agree to an $800 billion tax increase. it's entirely possible that they are going to go off the cliff any way. it doesn't mean that a deal is imminent. it basically means that they surrender. they
blamed for it. >> so are you saying, then, for pr purposes that they should give into obama on the tax rate in. >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am. >> ka pit late to obama who is -- we don't have a revenue problem, ann. >> we lost the election, shawn. >> i can't believe i'm saying this, but ann coultter is right. they lost. the question may now be when, not if, the republicans will cave on taxes. joining me now is dana milbank, columnist for "the...
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. >>> coming up, new signs president obama's winning the tax fight. news today could strengthen his hand against speaker boehner. >>> plus, karl rove hasn't learned a thing is since its infamous air meltdown. why is he questioning polls again? >>> and a very special guest is here with me tonight. we have a gold medal winner onset. gabby douglas live in the studio. her story of sacrifice inspired a country. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. initiated. neural speeds increasing to 4g lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. >>> have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. today our fans were buzzing over the newly released photo of the president on the phone with mitt romney as he conceded to him on election night. he have len says, the president was probably so glad it was over so that he could get back to working for our country. david says, he must have be
. >>> coming up, new signs president obama's winning the tax fight. news today could strengthen his hand against speaker boehner. >>> plus, karl rove hasn't learned a thing is since its infamous air meltdown. why is he questioning polls again? >>> and a very special guest is here with me tonight. we have a gold medal winner onset. gabby douglas live in the studio. her story of sacrifice inspired a country. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc....
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president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> let's allow higher rates to go up for the top 2%, that includes all of you, yes. but not in any way that's going to affect your spending, your lifestyles, or the economy in any significant way. let's make sure that 98% of americans don't see it -- a single dime in tax increases next year. >> so, john boehner, the speaker for the republican party in this partisan fight is saying, he's already socking it to the rich. he's willing to raise their taxes in various forms but just not the rate. isn't he agreeing in principle to the president's argument of fairness? isn't he in a weaker position to deny a rate change? governor? >> sure he is, chris. number one, he hasn't specified
president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> let's allow higher rates to go up for the top 2%, that includes all of you, yes. but not in any way that's...
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adelson stands to pay a whole, whole lot more in taxes now that mr. obama has won a second term. and mr. adelson says he intends to double his spending on conservative causes with a particular focus on anti-union measures in the states. labor unions played a big part in mr. adelson's conversion to democrat to republican kingmaker. he fought with members picketing outside his hotel in las vegas. he tried to fight them in court, until find the supreme court declined to take his case. in testimony for the nevada state ethics commission, future democratic congresswoman and unsuccessful candidate shelly berkeley said adelson had told her, "old democrats were with the union and he wanted to break the back of the union, subsequently he had to break the back of the democrats." that fight, the war with labor changed sheldon adelson from being just another social liberal on the sidelines of politics to sheldon adelson, contributor on an historic scale to republicans who do not share his social values and this goes to a fundamental truth about the republican party. which is that the republi
adelson stands to pay a whole, whole lot more in taxes now that mr. obama has won a second term. and mr. adelson says he intends to double his spending on conservative causes with a particular focus on anti-union measures in the states. labor unions played a big part in mr. adelson's conversion to democrat to republican kingmaker. he fought with members picketing outside his hotel in las vegas. he tried to fight them in court, until find the supreme court declined to take his case. in testimony...
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he told cnbc that instead of continuing tax breaks for the wealthy, the obama administration is willing to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy. now there's been very little progress here on chiapitol hill which is why so many have gone home. we know that president obama and john boehner spoke by phone. republican sources telling us they had a conversation yesterday. we don't have a readout on what that was about. we don't know that if any meetings have been scheduled. but any small sign of progress is welcome here on capitol hill. now with so many lawmakers headed home and likely to face the ire of their constituents, we saw one protester in baltimore yesterday over social security. there are a few left. today there's a joint economic committee hearing. they're going to hear from a top economist not only about the jobs numbers coming out tomorrow but also about what can be done to avoid this issue at the end of the year. >>
he told cnbc that instead of continuing tax breaks for the wealthy, the obama administration is willing to go over this cliff which means they're willing to let your taxes go up and unemployment checks go away massive spending cuts happen if the pentagon instead of continuing the tax breaks for the wealthy. now there's been very little progress here on chiapitol hill which is why so many have gone home. we know that president obama and john boehner spoke by phone. republican sources telling us...
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coming up here, president obama takes his tax plan on the road trying to sell it to the american people. republicans aren't buying it. congressman jason chav fitz joins me. fay yesterday and ambassador martin indyk with reaction to the vote at the u.n. and the wife of an american contractor jailed? cuba turns up the heat on the u.s. government and one campaign ceo michael elliott on the work that needs to be done. that plus the lottery winners power ball. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. n an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. information on my phone. connection to doctors who get where i'm from. and tools to estimate what my care may cost. so i never missed a beat. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare.
coming up here, president obama takes his tax plan on the road trying to sell it to the american people. republicans aren't buying it. congressman jason chav fitz joins me. fay yesterday and ambassador martin indyk with reaction to the vote at the u.n. and the wife of an american contractor jailed? cuba turns up the heat on the u.s. government and one campaign ceo michael elliott on the work that needs to be done. that plus the lottery winners power ball. "andrea mitchell reports" is...
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economists are with obama on this issue. obama campaigned on tax fairness, won on tax fairness. the public is with him. the third point ron didn't respond to, it is a matter of fact republicans have paraded for the last -- since anybody can remember as the party that wants to rein in government spend çpentagon. austerity regiment is a republican idea. when it comes time to put the your money where the mouth is, republicans are unable to identify significant cuts other than play on the margins? it makes my central point which is the tea party movement, which are the inmates in control of the asylum and republican party right now is an intellectually bankrupt movement. there is time to show the cuts and they can't do it. >> can i very quickly -- >> that was a psychiatric reference there, martin. you didn't cut him off on that. in fairness -- >> i just want to quickly say, in 2002 dick cheney said deficits don't matter. when republicans crammed through the bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 through reconciliation, they wrote them to expire. they are the ones who made them expire and
economists are with obama on this issue. obama campaigned on tax fairness, won on tax fairness. the public is with him. the third point ron didn't respond to, it is a matter of fact republicans have paraded for the last -- since anybody can remember as the party that wants to rein in government spend çpentagon. austerity regiment is a republican idea. when it comes time to put the your money where the mouth is, republicans are unable to identify significant cuts other than play on the...
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it's not like folks who make more than 250 aren't getting a tax break, they've getting a tax break on the first 250, just like everybody else. >> congressman cole first said this in a closed door meeting with republicans yesterday. he said basically exactly what president obama just said and he then expanded on his comments instead of denying them or refusing to comment at all, which he could have done. house speaker john boehner, who needs other loyal republicans to start talking sense to crazy tea party, he was outraged by his suggestion. >> you're not going to grow the economy if you raise tax rates on the top two rates. we're willing to put revenue on the table as long as we're not raising rates. >> but that didn't stop congressman cole from going on hardball today continuing to sell the idea of making peace with the president for the sake of 98% of american taxpayers. >> if the president's willing to accept 80% of the bush tax cuts for 98% of the american people and make them permanent, i think that is a point we should agree op. >> tom cole also made it clear he is still a boehn
it's not like folks who make more than 250 aren't getting a tax break, they've getting a tax break on the first 250, just like everybody else. >> congressman cole first said this in a closed door meeting with republicans yesterday. he said basically exactly what president obama just said and he then expanded on his comments instead of denying them or refusing to comment at all, which he could have done. house speaker john boehner, who needs other loyal republicans to start talking sense...
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end of the day president obama is selling a simple message, i want to keep taxes low for middle-class americans and republicans look like -- i'm worried are in the position offiof ing -- looking as fe the don't care about middle class. >> joining us is the sage of capitol hill, boat shoe enthusiast and celebrity doppelganger, nbc's luke russert. >> good day. happy monday. >> thank you, luke. it's an exciting time on capitol hill my friend. i want to focus first on the gop. is the party coming together, coalescing around something, anything, relating to the fiscal cliff? >> well, i think they're coalescing around anything it's for speaker boehner to continue the negotiations and not give a single inch. the gop has done very well over the last few years is in the negotiations with president obama. they've held a hard line to the very end including during the debt limit where john boehner is allowed to say he got 98% of what he wanted. what you have to look for is the splinter that tom cole started last week, heard mr. chris toll say about how the president has an effective bully pulpit
end of the day president obama is selling a simple message, i want to keep taxes low for middle-class americans and republicans look like -- i'm worried are in the position offiof ing -- looking as fe the don't care about middle class. >> joining us is the sage of capitol hill, boat shoe enthusiast and celebrity doppelganger, nbc's luke russert. >> good day. happy monday. >> thank you, luke. it's an exciting time on capitol hill my friend. i want to focus first on the gop. is...
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that would come through a somewhat tax reformed process. right now we're seeing the exact opposite. president obama is sticking firm with what he offered in his budget release, or at least in his opening bid and boehner is kind of chasing over obama with more or less compromised proposals saying, why won't you work with me, give more, sacrifice more? look, we're early here and most of the people i talk with in washington are saying we're not going to get deep into this until mid-december at least. if we do a process of kind of incrementally coming from in between the two proposals, you could very easily imagine between obama and boehner on tacks is $1.2 trillion. that's where they end up on mandatory spending, 750. that wouldn't be a shocker either. boehner's opening bid here is not the bid of the side in the stronger position. it's a side desperately trying to get the press to compromise. >> now, michelle whark we don't see in the counteroffer is extension of payroll tax cut, extension of unemployment, raising the debt ceiling. none of thi
that would come through a somewhat tax reformed process. right now we're seeing the exact opposite. president obama is sticking firm with what he offered in his budget release, or at least in his opening bid and boehner is kind of chasing over obama with more or less compromised proposals saying, why won't you work with me, give more, sacrifice more? look, we're early here and most of the people i talk with in washington are saying we're not going to get deep into this until mid-december at...
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to raise taxes. george bush cut taxes and started two wars with a minus half a million margin in the polls. barack obama has 3.5 million plus. so if 3 3.5 million plus isn't enough of a mandate to do something about taxes, what the hell was a half million loss? >> we're going to miss you congressman frank, barney frank ending an incredible career in massachusetts. we'll have you back again, if we can. >> i'll be around, chris. >> i want to ask you what you'll miss, positively and negative will from the congress. thanks for coming on tonight, congressman. >> you're welcome. >>> when we return, let me finish with whether the politicians who run the government will be able to do what's right, do what's necessary. this month. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. made a comm. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also com
to raise taxes. george bush cut taxes and started two wars with a minus half a million margin in the polls. barack obama has 3.5 million plus. so if 3 3.5 million plus isn't enough of a mandate to do something about taxes, what the hell was a half million loss? >> we're going to miss you congressman frank, barney frank ending an incredible career in massachusetts. we'll have you back again, if we can. >> i'll be around, chris. >> i want to ask you what you'll miss, positively...
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and yesterday president obama met with a virginia family. tax hikes for the rich are nonnegotiable. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is for families like this one. >> joining me now is barry, msnbc political contributor and editor for grio. hello, guys. >> perry, i'm wondering if these new unemployment numbers add to the president's leverage? >> i think they do. the big thing is the election. but the jobs numbers suggest that the economy is doing well and it cuts against the republican argument that raising taxes on the rich with would hurt the economy and the economy is fragile. the numbers though that the economy is not fragile and that would improve the economy's leverage. he's still doing so many public events. he is trying to use that public pressure to sort of force the republicans to cut a deal. >> doing this public stuff but at the same time having these private talks with the
and yesterday president obama met with a virginia family. tax hikes for the rich are nonnegotiable. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is for families like this one. >> joining me now is barry, msnbc political contributor and editor for grio. hello, guys. >> perry, i'm wondering if these new unemployment numbers add to the...
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michael steele admitted we had to raise taxes. and you admitted that you would give up your entire "time" selection if you could just be in the white house today. explain why. >> because at 12:30, president obama will greet former republican nominee mitt romney for lunch today. you remember in his victory speech on november 6th, the president said he looked forward to meeting with mitt romney to talk about ways they can work together to move things forward on all the problems that the country faces today. he mentioned it again, i believe, at his press conference last week or two weeks ago. and so this is the fulfillment of that promise. now, you know, whether the president, you know, says hey, mitt, i want you to sit on this commission or i want you to send me a briefing book or paper or something on any number of issues, if that happens, i'd be very surprised. but i do think that they would talk about fiscal cliff. they'd talk about tax reform. they'd talk about entitlements because, i mean, say what you will about mitt romney. i
michael steele admitted we had to raise taxes. and you admitted that you would give up your entire "time" selection if you could just be in the white house today. explain why. >> because at 12:30, president obama will greet former republican nominee mitt romney for lunch today. you remember in his victory speech on november 6th, the president said he looked forward to meeting with mitt romney to talk about ways they can work together to move things forward on all the problems...
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you sound like obama. there comes a point in time when you have to ask yourself when are they going to fight? you say they are going to put them above your principles. >> not exactly. >> they are going to lose. >> well. >> you are going to lose. >> sometimes on principle. >> what is the principle? >> the principle is we want to raise taxes on everyone? >> if they block tax hikes on as they call it on the top two income earners not the rich. then taxes go up for everyone, how is that winning. >> oh, joy read. in my wildest dreams which never include ann coulter, never, did that happen. >> no. >> as i'm watching i'm thinking there are two kinds of retreat. >> that is the bumping into the retreat. if they block tax hikes on the top two percent, she says to sean. how is that winning? >> i have to say, i don't think it has been articulated better by any one. >> ann coulter is the reality cop. did you hear anything you disagreed with in there? >> is there a question there? >> she said republican ares are going t
you sound like obama. there comes a point in time when you have to ask yourself when are they going to fight? you say they are going to put them above your principles. >> not exactly. >> they are going to lose. >> well. >> you are going to lose. >> sometimes on principle. >> what is the principle? >> the principle is we want to raise taxes on everyone? >> if they block tax hikes on as they call it on the top two income earners not the rich. then...
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the senate is sitting there and they have passed a tax cut extension program that the obama administration wants. it would essentially lay the groundwork for a quick fix to this fiscal cliff. >> sam stein, "huffington post," good to have you with us. >> go giants. >> stop that. >> had to do that. >> remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts on twitter @edshow and on facebook. >>> coming up, mitch mcconnell saying raising limits. we're talking about what will happen if the parties don't come to a deal. >>> senate republicans have used a record number of filibusters. >>> senate republicans have used a record number of filibusters. john boehner is fighting to keep it that way. we'll tell you what that's about. >>> fast food workers stage the largest strike in their history. we'll show you what they hope to accomplish here in the big apple. >>> and later the white house releases the first beau obama christmas video. it's much better than the old barney camp videos and we have the tape to prove us. share your thoughts on facebook and twitter. we're c
the senate is sitting there and they have passed a tax cut extension program that the obama administration wants. it would essentially lay the groundwork for a quick fix to this fiscal cliff. >> sam stein, "huffington post," good to have you with us. >> go giants. >> stop that. >> had to do that. >> remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts on twitter @edshow and on facebook. >>> coming up, mitch...
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that would let president obama pocket $1 trillion in tax revenue and secure a win on his key priority in the talks. but they would do nothing else. at the end of the year, we would still go over the fiscal cliff. remember, the bush tax cuts are one of the at least stimulative policies in the negotiations. according to the economic policy institute, extending the middle class tax cuts would wipe out only about 11% of the austerity's economic impact. 11%. but all that other stuff, the payroll tax cut, the unemployment insurance, the sequester, all that, that would still be expiring. so come early next year, the economy would likely be entering an austerity-induced recession. markets would be convulsing as they realize our austerity crisis is about to become also a default crisis. and so the economy, as a whole, is going to be going nuts. poll after poll already shows republicans are receiving more blame for the potential failure of the debt talks. and after telling the press they're going to make a strategic decision to use a debt ceiling as more and more dangerous leverage, they're lik
that would let president obama pocket $1 trillion in tax revenue and secure a win on his key priority in the talks. but they would do nothing else. at the end of the year, we would still go over the fiscal cliff. remember, the bush tax cuts are one of the at least stimulative policies in the negotiations. according to the economic policy institute, extending the middle class tax cuts would wipe out only about 11% of the austerity's economic impact. 11%. but all that other stuff, the payroll tax...